#46582: "ELO adaptation to the number of players is screwed badly"
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# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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Description détaillée
• Merci de copier-coller le message d'erreur qui s'affiche à l'écran, s'il y a lieu.
n/a• Veuillez expliquer ce que vous vouliez faire, ce que vous avez fait et ce qu'il s'est passé
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Quel est votre navigateur ?
Google Chrome v91
• SVP copiez / collez ici le texte affiché en anglais au lieu de votre langue. Si vous avez une capture d'écran de ce bug (pensez-y !), vous pouvez utiliser Imgur.com pour la télécharger et copier-coller le lien ici.
n/a• Ce texte est-il disponible dans le système de traduction ? Si oui, a-t-il été traduit depuis plus de 24 heures ?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Quel est votre navigateur ?
Google Chrome v91
• Merci d'expliquer votre suggestion de manière précise et concise, de façon à ce qu'il soit aussi simple que possible de comprendre ce que vous voulez dire.
n/a• Quel est votre navigateur ?
Google Chrome v91
• Qu'était-il affiché à l'écran lorsque vous avez été bloqué·e (Écran vierge ? Une partie de l'interface de jeu ? Un message d'erreur ?)
n/a• Quel est votre navigateur ?
Google Chrome v91
• Quelle partie des règles n'a pas été respectée par l'adaptation BGA
n/a• La violation de règle est-elle visible dans le replay de la partie ? Si oui, à quel numéro de coup ?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Quel est votre navigateur ?
Google Chrome v91
• Quelle action de jeu vouliez-vous faire ?
n/a• Qu'essayez-vous de faire pour déclencher cette action de jeu ?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Que se passe-t-il lorsque vous essayez de faire cela (message d'erreur, message de la barre d'état du jeu, ...) ?
• Quel est votre navigateur ?
Google Chrome v91
• À quelle étape de la partie le problème est-il apparu (quel était le texte d'instruction du jeu) ?
n/a• Que se passe-t-il lorsque vous essayez de faire une action de jeu (message d'erreur, message de la barre d'état du jeu, ...) ?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Quel est votre navigateur ?
Google Chrome v91
• Veuillez décrire le problème d'affichage. Si vous avez une capture d'écran de ce bug (pensez-y !), vous pouvez utiliser Imgur.com pour la télécharger et copier-coller le lien ici.
n/a• Quel est votre navigateur ?
Google Chrome v91
• SVP copiez / collez ici le texte affiché en anglais au lieu de votre langue. Si vous avez une capture d'écran de ce bug (pensez-y !), vous pouvez utiliser Imgur.com pour la télécharger et copier-coller le lien ici.
n/a• Ce texte est-il disponible dans le système de traduction ? Si oui, a-t-il été traduit depuis plus de 24 heures ?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Quel est votre navigateur ?
Google Chrome v91
• Merci d'expliquer votre suggestion de manière précise et concise, de façon à ce qu'il soit aussi simple que possible de comprendre ce que vous voulez dire.
n/a• Quel est votre navigateur ?
Google Chrome v91
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- Le problème est-il apparu plusieurs fois ? À chaque fois ? Aléatoirement ?
- Si vous avez une capture d'écran de ce bug (pensez-y !), vous pouvez utiliser Imgur.com pour la télécharger et copier-coller le lien ici.